A small and tangential point - I remember both the Eolus and Silex coming in at 3-5 ounces overweight after seam sealing based on user reports on Rokslide.
When you look at it that way the weight is not bad at all - the only things really weighing it down are the larger binding they are using and the extra thick zippers which were selling points to me personally.
The BA shield is the small footprint dome you use for areas with less space.
Pyramid tarps are a popular ultralight backpacking shelter option because theyre relatively lightweight and wind-resistant. We used it on a high alpine bench (~10,000ft), and it held up well in the winds. Me, for light-weight I would only use a double-skin tunnel tent at that altitude. 
Pyramid tarps are called monopole shelters because they only require one pole to set up. Also packs smaller which is nice. If you opt not to use an inner tent in a pyramid tarp, you can use a lightweight footprint, like Tyvek or window wrap, as a waterproof groundsheet, or an ultralight bivy sack with a mesh hood for added insect protection.
I would expect better snow shedding due to steeper walls and more structure, and similar or greater living volume in a smaller footprint. A deadman, skis etc.
It's just lighter and stronger for the weight.
This works fine if youre on a tour and moving along every day. We try to post Tasty Tips daily!
You certainly lose weight, but the stretch of the silnylon can actually help in some cases. Big yellow plastic stakes work good in soft or medium snow, but if it gets too hard and icy, they are difficult to drive in (since they are plastic).
I have a Black Diamond Megalight (because you need another option) and it's as bombproof a tent as you could want. How about set up?
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The way they position the seams, shape the tarp are different and effect stormproofness, interior room, etc. TREAD LABS INSOLES: As good as custom orthotics at a fraction of the price. But if one was to dig down in the mid, and take down the pole, and do your best to tie up the flapping material, you'd get a way way better wind profile. You're definitely right to be looking at mids. Like what you see here? This makes them a good choice for camping in exposed terrain that doesnt have a lot of natural windbreaks like trees or vegetation, and for winter camping, where the steep sidewalls of a pyramid can help shed snow. The 0.75 DCF could easily take many times more weigh in snow than any trekking pole could ever handle without collapsing. Can you set it up by yourself with heavy winds and gloves?
"* The design is very dependent on *all* the stakes holding all of them.".
I'm thinking the big yellow plastic stakes might work better than my little titaniums for not ripping through the ice? Actually lemme not write this out, i'll snap a photo of an old paper I have detailing some mids in that category. (This tent-http://www.oregonphotos.com/snow-camping.html#anchor165216). While not an issue for solo use, youre probably going to wake up a partner if you have to get out of a multi-person pyramid at night.
We used Chouinard pyramids in eastern Oregon in the winter where poles on a Northface expedition tent broke from the wind.
They couldn't. With your ski poles making an A-frame as shown here, you of course need to remove them the next day when you go skiing.
I would imagine the MSR you mention would work, I used a Mountain Laurel Designs supermid which I liked. You're currently viewing a free preview of a member exclusive premium article. Here's a photo sequence and pro tips from Graybird Guiding showing how to prepare your campsite and set up your tent. Check out this short (2:40) video that shows how all this comes together.
Yes, finding a stick might be difficult. As for strength although the fabric is stronger the more likely failure is pulling out anchors which cuben will put more force on from the lack of stretch. Why? You took 3 feet of snow and 30 mph winds but you would not use it on a volcano?
Too much work to keep it from collapsing?
When camping in exposed and windy terrain, its best to set up your pyramid with the door facing away from the wind or at an angle. If you are just going around Denali NP then a pyramid would work great since treeline is so low there - I was there a year ago and mainly used a gatewood cape and I only camped below treeline once and had plenty of room generally. Finally if you're not a weight weenie the Cimarron (for a larger footprint) and the Silvertip (for a smaller footprint) both make a lot of sense. The rest :-). Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts, DurstonGear.com - Use DMs for questions to keep threads on topic. Despite their differences, all pyramid shelters share a few common properties. They are exceptionally wind and weather resistant, they have a single peak, and solid walls. If you rig it as shown below with ski poles, there's no center pole, which saves some weight and gives you even more space inside. Black diamond mega or beta are good choices. My options are the MSR Front Range 4 (400$) and the Hyperlite Ultamid 4 (1100$). How much wind can a pyramid take? Use the links below to share this content: Viewing 22 posts - 1 through 22 (of 22 total), Live Webinar - Introduction to Map & Compass - July 2 @ 9 AM US MDT, http://brooks-range.com/Invasion-Tent.html, http://www.outdoorgearlab.com/4-Season-Tent-Reviews/Brooks-Range-Invasion. 
How are you going to find a stick above the treeline in winter?
Thanks for the advice.
Nice to see Black Diamond moving to polyester.
Its the same weight as the front range in Sil, but has stronger/more waterproof fabric and better design.
Would have similar durability (both 20D) , better value ($300 vs $500), and no sag at a lighter weight (21 vs 26oz).
While headroom is quite good in the center of a pyramid, the ends can be quite low above your face or the tops of your feet.
Then put up the pole and the other guy outs.
The pyraomm is silpoly and the wall angles make sense. The security of a pyramid tent in really high winds relies on having adequate snow cover The silnylon held up to the high winds we encountered that night just fine. It's nice. It is a pyramid shaped poncho that can be pitch with a trekking pole as a tarp.
Compare it to the MLD supermid for example. Most pyramid tents and tarps have a single front door, which can be problematic depending on its position and the number of people sharing the shelter. Simply flatten the tent and put a few snow blocks in the middle to keep it from blowing away when you're gone. It makes a lot of functional sense. Can they handle it?
The pole is usually placed inside the peak in the center of the pyramid, although it can also be slanted with the base off-center to provide more interior room.
I've used the Megalight for over 10 years in the winter.
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That means that you have to have a good tool to dig with. http://www.outdoorgearlab.com/4-Season-Tent-Reviews/Brooks-Range-Invasion. While different versions of this tent have probably been around for thousands of years, Black Diamond was one of the first (early 1990s?) "Setting up a pyramid tent by yourself is never easy.
Pricey but maybe worth it if you use it a lot. Honestly an incredible tent. Please be mindful of our values and boundaries and review our Community Guidelines prior to posting. Pyramid tarps often called mids, short for pyramids, are available in multiple forms ranging from one-person ultralight monopole tarps to multi-person winter tipis, complete with inner tents, stove jacks, and wood stoves.
Shoot us your name and email, and well keep you in the loop so you hear of all new articles. Pyramid style, floorless tents have some advantages over standard floored tents when it comes to snow camping and multi day ski trips. No it's not that light, but it goes up anywhere in any conditions and one person can pitch it easily. https://www.amazon.com/Snow-Sand-Shawn-Forry/dp/B07PNKKMPS. Maybe I'm wrong but I'm not gonna spend the money to find out. We put rocks around the edges so that wind could not get underneath very well.
I'm not buying that.
Pyramid tents can be used above treeline, although you might want to modify the shape if you expect high wind. pyramid in high wind you want guylines on each side, like the McKinley tent, the McKinley tent has those four short poles on the corners. OSPREY-PACKS: Backpacking Pack Sale! (Check out their hashtag #sknowmore for specific backcountry ski tips.). New Customer Discount.
At these price points, the front range would allow me to budget for a single wall tent expedition tent with it, while the hyperlite I would hope to use more in place of a single wall. 23 oz or 26 is really remarkable for a high-performance tent, but do you really want a 4-person footprint for 3-season conditions?
As does the price.
If instead you're using the tent as a base camp, use buried deadmen anchors like sturdy plastic bags or stuff sacks to anchor the corners. I use my pyramid as my main winter skiing tent, above treeline, in high winds, and have never had any issues with it. Any suggestions on a tunnel tent?
Better climate control: Lift up the bottom a bit if you need some ventilation, or bunker down from a storm by putting snow blocks on the outside.
Because of the extra space and ventilation, it's safer and more convenient to cook inside your tent (even though this is still probably against manufacturer recommendations.) I don't know if I would trust it for mountaineering, but around 1lb I would really really like to.
It's definitely true that you need to stake it out well. And the light models are extremely expensive. The great thing about local found sticks is that if your taut line hitch around the buried stick is above the snow, you can simply untie the knot, pull the cord and leave the stick when it is time to break camp. Free Shipping and Returns. Our premium articles include in depth journalism and insights from the Backpacking Light editorial team. I like a flat tarp for the intangibles despite it not being always functional.
MLD said that their silnylon which is 20 and 30D will last twice as long as their DCF shelters. No, not without giving up a lot of comfort and performance. Is that a common method?
A Membership is required to post in the forums. I would actually say it's more like a 3-4 person shelter compared to the sizing people are used to here. In that same ballpark is the Supermid.
GOSSAMER-GEAR: Take 15% Off all Gossamer Gear Backpacks, Tents, Tarps, Trekking Poles and Accessories with Coupon Code "SECTIONHIKER22". Think about geometry and tie out options - wall angle should be a leading concern. The benefit of a good single wall is the fact that when your cold and tired you can just get inside and easily set it up, then go outside stake it out and have a sturdy reliable shelter.
Or you can just use STICKS, the ultimate UL solution.
3) Stomp out pad with your skis. 99% of the time the pole is up, but that 1% of the time, when you're literally concerned about getting blown away, and just want to survive the night, you take down the pole. I appreciate this. Here's one of the newer models, the Mega Snow 4P, specifically designed for snow camping. While elevating the center pole can help increase the distance between the tarp and your face, theres always going to be less clearance at the edges of the tarp farthest away from the center pole.
Not having a center pole in the way is really nice! Make sure the corner guy outs are bomber.
Consider bringing longer, thicker, and heavier tent stakes when anchoring your shelter in windy terrain. I used a MYOG 99 pyramid in the Crazies in Montana this past summer. Comment *document.getElementById("comment").setAttribute( "id", "a40444861b7b552cc01bae287618b53c" );document.getElementById("je705695a8").setAttribute( "id", "comment" ); BACKCOUNTRY.COM: Get 15% Off Your First Order.
I wouldnt buy the cuben fiber for longevity or strength. If $1100 is in your budget, maybe look at getting two sil nylon shelters. If the snow is deep, you won't find any sticks under the snow.
Personally my ideal shelter for winter use would be the Xmid / SS2 / Silex approx layout but paired with burlier fabric, zippers, and real snow valences.
Couple of thoughts.
I plan on stretching its use as a four season tent in the snow by digging it out/building walls and guying it out well. I suppose 3 tents makes sense but then I feel like I'm just chasing gear purchases. Join us and ask yourself the question: Do I really need that?
I have been looking for some used integral designs and black diamond tents for sale.
I used McKinley tents in scouts and later for two other outdoors schools and none came with corner poles. All Rights Reserved. Map - Portland rock climbs and bouldering, Pacific NW Long Hiking Routes - GPX Tracks. I will be using it between 10,000 to 14,000 feet in the Sierra Nevada's here in Spain.
For DCF of it's weight it seems well made but I just can't see it lasting as long as heavier nylon: time will tell. Because of the stretch silnylon is easier to pitch, but less consistent as it will sag.
You can customize it for space and comfort, like digging a footwell for legroom, or using the slope of the hill as a backrest. a four sided pyramid is pretty simple if you stake out the four corners first. I'm just across the border from OP in the Yukon and I've used mine for years, summer and winter. If sleeping on the ground doesnt appeal to you or if you need insect protection, you can add an inner tent to a pyramid tarp to create a double-walled tent. The big problem with mids - two or one pole - is they do take up a lot of floor space. The advantage, of course, is the weight savings from dual use (no need for a rain parka). Cheers. Besides being lighter weight, DCF shelters are usually seam-taped, so you dont have to seam seal them. It's definitely overkill for 3 season use. Floorless, so no more sleeping in a puddle of accumulated meltwater.
I give up on a trip long before the tent does. It took me a while to dig one up, but back when I did a little above-treeline camping (very little, actually, with my Bibler eldorado), I used these deadman stakes which were made from the venerable yellow plastic stakes with the heads and points cut off and were then drilled to make them lighter. Also if Im going to have to use a true mountaineering tent then Id rather go the cheaper route on this kind of tent, but Im not really excited to own a bunch of tents. Keep in mind their main market is hunters with a lot more gear than any of us bring.
If you are doing Denali (the mountain) you may run into spots where you don't have room to pitch a pyramid. Trying to dig down to ground level can be problematic.
This can reduce the amount of useable space you have inside, but is unlikely to have a serious functional impact.
Weve used pyramid tarps and tents quite extensively for backpacking in a variety of climates and terrain. Many of the manufacturers listed above sell half-mids inner tents that can be used for this purpose. Internal guylines are really awesome if you can rig them - I've added internal loops to multiple designs that lacked them. I've had mine for 3yrs and it's in good shape but I don't think it's a lifetime shelter.
Let's learn from some expert backcountry ski guides who have hundreds of combined nights sleeping with this set up. Would you trust your life with a pyramid over a single wall tent? I understand that if you have pickets, flukes, ice axes, skis, snow stakes, etc, that those will work just fine, especially when you're pitching under duress in a screaming gale, but if you've got the luxury of time and reasonably calm conditions to pitch your shelter, these things are quite adequate.
My 3 season Camp from 10years ago has been all Ive needed so far but its time to get a real 4 season shelter as Ive avoided overnights in AK because I didnt have the tent.
Lots of dry snow but very hard winds during the winter. Here is another mid like tent we used to use. But I don't do any winter alpine climbing just general mountaineering, it could be great. Friends have the HMGs and they are awesome but good old silnylon still works just fine too.
We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites. And for extra ventillation two tunnel vents positioned partway up the side walls opposite the roof vents for when you seal the bottom with snow. Usually the best option is a single wall tent. Pyramid tents are usually just pyramid tarps with an optional add-on inner tent that has a floor and mesh netting to protect occupants from ground moisture, insects, and creepy crawlies. If your platform is level, you won't slide. Without them, you really can't use the outer 1 foot or so all the way around, but the poles weigh more, so maybe you're better off just making the floor a little bigger.
Pyramid tents and tarps are prone to internal condensation just like any other single or double-walled tent and shelter. The traditional way to set them up used a cord around the circumference that all the other tie outs were pre tied to. The idea seemed to be that you burry bags full of rocks in the snow rather than staking. I typically use skis on all four corners. What are the downsides? r/Ultralight is the largest online Ultralight Backcountry Backpacking community! The X-Mid 2P might work as a mid-inspired tent.
I trust Ron to have bias orientation figured out. I'm looking at a purchase like you are. DCF shelters are also significantly hotter inside when the sun is shining, which can make hanging out in one during the day insufferable. Sleeps four people, weighs 1650 g (3 lb 10 oz).
maybe a better solution would be to have 4 poles one for each ridge, and a short pyramid? Higher peak hight means more wind can catch it.
The floor dimensions are huge.
The way I figure it is, my mid and my 4 season tunnel are in a similar magnitude regarding wind profile and material strengths. I'm only 5'8" but it feels like I'm in a damn palace. Durable fabrics, both should weather with the best of them. Or do you stick with traditional stakes and just try to dig it down to ground or ice?
The shape of the footprint circular versus square or rectangular can also have an impact on the amount of edge clearance you have. If your trekking pole is not long enough, you can lash it to a second trekking pole with a Voile ski strap to create a longer pole or extend it with a pole jack, which is essentially atent pole repair sleeve that fits over your trekking pole tip to make it longer.
Hell if you wanted to you could even have a totally integrated floor sewn to the top like a Dome mountaineering tent - just gotta make sure the ventillation options are adequate. You must be logged in to reply to this topic. Backpacking Light helps hikers and other backcountry enthusiasts overcome their barriers to living a life outside in Wild Places. It's quite nice to have a floorless tent so water doesn't really pool at the bottom, it just freezes.
No duplication of photos, maps, or text without permission. This is particularly advantageous in winter when insect protection is unnecessary. More complicated stake out geometry. EDIT: Looks like their new shelters are announced - they have pre orders up - and damn these do not dissapoint! Snow doesn't shed off DCF that well. While a DCF shelter will be lighter weight (the larger the shelters, the bigger the weight difference) than one made with silnylon, it will be bulkier to pack.
You can get big discounts if your an AAC member on BA gear (or if you have a friend who is), If you want one shelter to do it all SlingFin would be a great option, Haha idk about that but Im sure more sane people would consider it suspect that my gear closet is worth more than my car shield 3 looks interesting, thats the lightest tent Ive seen in that style.
(No more than 2-3 emails per month, we promise.). 5) Use your skis (or buried bags) to anchor the four corners. 1) First, choose a gentle slope.
Get our free Handbook and Receive our weekly newsletter to see what's new at Backpacking Light! You talk seem to have a lot of ideas for winter tents, and honestly I think Im not as well versed as you.
I'd consider something bomber like a tunnel tent. This can be addressed by getting a larger capacity pyramid that provides more living space, although it will be heavier to carry. The first winter thru of the PCT was done with an MLD MID. The material also does not stretch when it gets wet by rain or morning dew. I called them "Deadfeathers". As shown in these photos, you're using your skis and poles as part of the tent structure.
Explain. A pole is often included with the shelter or available as an option.
What's great about pyramid tents in snow?
Plus, check out the backrest which comes from digging into a slope, clever! Both are by Seek Outside. When purchasing a pyramid, make sure to look for ones that have interior gear loops or attachment points so you can conveniently suspend accessories in the interior. (Bonus: good practice for avalanche rescue digging.).
For what it's worth, Max Neale strongly advocates for this tent in his 4-season Alaska adventures, including Denali. Just rambling now.
Here are the top 10 pyramid tarps that we recommend.
If the snow is deep enough, you can bury the bottom edge of the tent in the snow, and the wind won't get under the edge and into the tent.
The Front Range for your extreme case, and something like the Seek Outside Silex (17 oz, $195) or a MLD SoloMid/DuoMid for the warmer months.
Another vote for the Mega Light. DCF is not more durable than silnylon or silpoly. Also have you considered the MLD supermid? They both have advantages/disadvantages. It's survived 3 feet of snow dumping on me overnight, although you do have to dig it out.
Whats the difference between a pyramid tent and a pyramid tarp?
Your email address will not be published. Harder to pitch in tightly forested areas or on little mountain ledges. Lots of pyramid tents have a pretty high profile, so high wind can really tear those apart. A heavy geodesic dome works, but is heavy.
I am looking for the most light weight option for above treeline in the winter. This feature requires an active Backpacking Light Membership. Free Shipping and Returns. Save big on Exos/Eja, Atmos/Aura, and Stratos/Sirrus Backpacks. The only limitation on a pyramid is that you need to make sure you have a relatively large space to pitch the tent.
Not as good for snow loads. You would probably want to supplement it with a more typical 3-season UL piece at some point, however.
https://imgur.com/gallery/P7ppZKx (has some bad assumptions, is geared to two people sleeping next to each other - just look at the numerical values and not the commentary).
Edge clearance is usually less of an issue in winter because you can dig a pit into the snow under the pyramid to create more headroom. For modern tunnel tents look at Stevenson Warmlite, Hilleberg, and the MSR dragontail. Get Backpacking Light news, updates, gear info, skills, and commentary delivered into your inbox 1-2x/week. Plus I can use it in the summer instead of my tarp if I want. Works great as a cook tarp too where you can hangout with a bunch of people on group trips. I have the Ultamid 2 as my winter tent. But I wonder if even a mid can properly cover the range, without being a little thin in the extreme or a little heavy in the minimum. You can make a foot well because were using an A-frame support, not a center pole, see below. This sub is about overnight backcountry backpacking, with a focus on moving efficiently, packing light, generally aiming at a sub 10 pound base weight, and following LNT principles.
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Sleeps two, weighs a hair over 1 pound. I have never used a pyramid tent before. You will note the pair that just did the PCT in winter used a small MLD pyramid.
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That's the tradeoff I suppose.
Basically I want something highly versatile, useful as a 4 season shelter. But I imagine we have similar thoughts about career and lifestyle. 4) Optional: Dig a footwell for even more interior space. http://warmlite.com/tents/tents-technical, http://brooks-range.com/Invasion-Tent.html It is super flexible and could cover the options you are considering. Does anyone have experience using a pyramid in full out winter above tree line conditions?
Didnt trust it in that situation? I think the reason to go dcf is weight, and it's properties while wet (doesn't get water loaded, seep or stretch). Lengthen the center pole a few inches to raise the peak, and stake out the base as normal.
Tired of messing with gimicky UL tents and would like a 2 shelter setup of flat tarp and mid/mid-ish.
One alternative is to lower the profile to be about two-thirds of normal.
The Rab Latok Mountain 2/3 would be a good alternative.
In the wind, in the winter with gloves I would want a second person. The best way to reduce or eliminate any internal condensation is to maintain as much airflow as possible.
Obviously the latter is cuben fiber and a large investment that will last forever, but my question is the increased strength worth the cost or will the Silnylon tarp be suffiecient. Without skins, point your skis downhill. You might want to include the Zpacks Altaplex tarp, which is the perfect size for a solo+ shelter and only weighs 7.6 ounces in 0.50 DCF and 9.5 ounces in 0.75 DCF. Pyramids work best on flat ground with fairly open campsites because they require a fair amount of space to set up and stake down. But they are heavy.
I have a possible Denali/Forraker trip coming in the spring and might try to use this as a shelter on that depending on how testing through the winter goes (I realize many will say this is a bad idea, and I plan on thoroughly testing in bad weather before taking on a trip - if it doesnt Ill borrow a tent and use this as a cook tent).