If so, what is the distance between them when they are closed? Not saying that the more powerful spring will do the job, but it would be more powerful than what you have. 
I can manually slip the arm back into place but nothing is keeping it fastened. [g]. Your model will have its own page. Seriously, I went out and manually tightened them, but I'm a 68 year old woman without a lot of strength. If your closer has a nut or T handle that you must turn to activate the hold open feature, probably you will have to replace the arm. I would venture to say that the fact of the noise being loud is not a good sign, and points to the possibility that it has been adjusted to do something it was not designed to do. I have found plenty of explanations of they certain 'types' of closers now but still am uncertain what type would be ideal for this type of residential entryway. 
JavaScript seems to be disabled in your browser. Removing the bookmarks also deletes the notes. This is difficult, because the veneer is glued to the strip of wood on both sides of the door, and it may be difficult to remove the top strip without damaging the door. If it pushes to the right, it's a right hand door.
The problem is that it will swing quite abruptly and one of our nurses got her finger pinched. Below it are shown a few examples of optional arms that are available to give surface mounted door closers more functionality. Right hand version shown (viewing the door from the opening side, hinges are on the right. Another is an adjustable soffet or door bracket that allows a door closer to be installed on a door with a round or curved top. Tom rubenoff (author) from United States on November 25, 2011: It sounds to me like you need a stop more than a closer. I have french doors from my den, outside swing to a second floor dec,. Sure, they both close the door, but spring hinges slam the door, whereas door closers are designed to close the door slowly and quietly. A parallel arm mount would be the only kind of mount that would apply a direct pull on the mounting screws. If the closers are mounted in a parallel arm, when the arm is extended until it stops it will, in effect, pull on the closer body. It is an old Yale Amarlite, if that matters. Alternatively you could use spring hinges, but these would simply slam the door. Tom rubenoff (author) from United States on June 02, 2012: Round top doors, ah yes, I remember them all too well. $67.00, Special Price White Choose your closer accordingly. One thing to avoid is installing the closer contrary to the installation instructions with the idea of adapting the closer to the non-standard situation. This arm is pictured above. To be sure, check the installation instructions. One is the corner bracket, that allows a standard arm mounting on the push side of a door. I kept thinking everyone was talking about the backcheck valve. What type of closer, preferably exterior would you suggest. Answer: First, identify it. If you have a friction hold open that is adjusted using a nut on the arm, you can loosen the nut - just a little, mind you - and render the hold open feature ineffective, or you can replace the arm with a non hold open arm. Best follow them, be it a parallel arm, standard or top jamb install. Due to COVID-19 Shipping Times May be Impacted. I have tried to dry lube the turn points but that has not helped. Sounds ingenious! (no idea why i have not been offered a job working at Norton or LCN, but about every locksmith (on the internet) that i have communicated with and even people at IRST (ingersoll rand security technologies) have told me about visiting the LCN plant to watch closers be made or even take a course in them. *Please note: Sugatsune charges a $5 handling fee on orders under $50. Or is the door not able to open as fully as you would like? Weight : 15 - 40 kg those are the bane of one's existence, and there are so many goobers out there that use a closer in a non-standard mount and expect it to work - (1) without slamming, (2) foil even the "latch-parkers" (say pool users that leave the gate "ajar" for their friends to come in behind them when I install standard door closers in a PA mount configuration on a metal security gate on a pool fence, there has to be for my purposes, a horizontal cross bar at the top of the frame (and at a 7 foot level) to mimic the geometry and mounting dimensions of a standard door frame. Surface mount that can be retrofitted onto current door installations.Easy to align to proper positioning, speeding up installation.Slim profile (body height only 16 mm) can handle doors up to 40 kg in Sugatsune LDD-S-P SPACER FOR LDD-STwo types available: 2 mm thickness and 3 mm thickness.Can be used for Max. Question: The door closer arms are not arrayed at the acute angles shown in your illustrations, or in the manual's illustrations. Non-track surface mounted door closers are available with different kinds of arms that perform different functions. You must have JavaScript enabled in your browser to utilize the functionality of this website. If the gate is tall enough, one could build a housing above the gate for the pulley system. It's a surface mounted closer, top jamb installation. Devices that are strictly door closers are very unlikely to make a whirring sound, but door openers have a much better chance at it because they have electro-mechanical components. what also could contribute to the learning, some locksmith courses don't cover the advanced skills and "hints and tips" of closers, but just how to perform "fresh installs" on doors and make the main adjustments. Question: Weve had two Dorma TS72 closers detach from the door, and the fitter blamed it on vandalism when we know that this is not the case. Answer: It could be some things. Or am I missing something? Since I need both these features, can I use both devices? Tom rubenoff (author) from United States on October 14, 2012: All of the closers I know of offer a through bolt package, also called sex nut fasteners. Closes gently, preventing Sugatsune UDD DISK DAMPER Fastener Type: 4 X 45, 3.5 X 15 mm Self tapping screw, Quiver Enterprises LLC 416 Carrie Lynn Avenue Algoma, WI 54201, Quiver Enterprises LLC This also eliminates the conflict, but it is a LOT more work. They will be happy to tell you. Sugatsune LDD-S-L/DBR: Surface Mount Door Damper (left) in Dark Brown finish. Of course installing a much heavier wood core door onto a door frame designed for a hollow core wood door may present its own challenges as well. Tom rubenoff (author) from United States on January 31, 2012: Some door closers are handed. Tom rubenoff (author) from United States on March 01, 2012: Thank you Jess. :). In the pictures of surface mounted door closers at the beginning of this article, the closers all have what is called a standard, double lever arm. To do it mechanically, one could create a chain and pulley system that would do the job, but the problem would be doing it in a way that does not create an obstruction to those using the gate. While they are designed to operate quietly, they usually have an electric motor and drive apparatus that certainly have the potential to make a whirring sound. Between the inside and outside plates, use copper tubing to create sleeves for the through-bolts so as to help stop them from crushing the door. You add a lot to my writing about door closers. Copyright 2022 SWS Hardware.
Sugatsune LADH LIFT-ASSIST DAMPER (Heavy Duty) The door is made of aluminum and I would say it's heavy, like most newer houses have, with a thickness of maybe 2".
Alternatively, the catalog section on the LCN 4010T series says to consult the factory if the door is to be held open at 180 degrees. Your answers are always on target. If you have a lot of extra time and money, a concealed door closer will do the job. The arm stays attached to the door frame, and on one of the doors, a screw snapped in half where the closer had ripped away from the door. Firstly it overcomes any latching friction. I can't seem to find a longer connecting rod that goes with the 5400 series anywhere. Answer: I'd say no, not significantly. There are motorized gate operators that slide side-by-side gates in opposite directions, such as the Stanley SL540, however they do it by wiring two motors together, one on each side of the gate. Saw the comment on hollow wooden door but thought there might be some simple solutions ( or not so simple ) to metal doors as well. 6 mm thickness gap. One can either improvise or compromise. Low profile door closer for small, horizontally swinging doors. Equipped with dampening mechanism for soft close. Stay will hold the door in 90 open position. Push the door to close Accuride Hardware Kits-Brackets-Screws-Accessories, Heavy Duty Slides 170 Lbs to 1300 Lbs Load Rating, Medium Duty 140 Lbs to 169 Lbs Load Rating, Sugatsune LADH LIFT-ASSIST DAMPER (Heavy Duty), Sugatsune LDD Series DOOR DAMPER Surface Mount, Sugatsune LDD-SP-xx Spacer For LDD-S Dampers, Sugatsune EBD DAMPER FOR EB FOLDING BRACKET, Sugatsune LAD-DP SPACERS FOR THICKER PANEL, Sugatsune LAD-ST LIFT ASSIST DAMPER (W/ANGLE STOPPER), Sugatsune LDD-V LAPCON DOOR DAMPER (RECESSED TYPE)For Heavy Doors, Sugatsune YMC MINI-DOOR CLOSER WITH DAMPER. A hollow core wood door is not usually designed to support a door closer. mounted Concealed door closers can be used on single acting doors - doors that swing one way - but they are always used when a door is "double acting," that is, a door that swings both ways, in and out. On the pull side of the door, the plate should be flush with the top of the door so that it can be screwed to the thin strip of wood inside the top of the door. More info. Self & soft-close in final 15 degrees. If it were held open for several decades, it might have some effect. Unfortunately, all 4 of the screws that hold its parallel bracket in place are constantly loose. Is it a situation where this door is the exterior storm door and there is another, perhaps wooden door behind it? Is there any add-on (or OEM closer) available that allows mounting where my current cheap tubular hydraulic closer is, which is about 18 inches off the threshold? Surface mount version. about the oil/fluid, if I was approached with this situation, I would say to leave the fluid in the closer and adjust the valves so they are open all the way (not removed from closer body) this way it will not hinder the normal freeswinging feel but will slow it down if someone tries to slam it (in anger or wind take the door), as for the internal parts, this is best left to the experts/professionals to deal with, there is a really strong spring inside them that if taken out wrong or the wrong procedure used, can result in serious personal injury/damage to closer, Tom, a closer that has no fluid or piston/spring is often called a "dummy closer" these are common in use where a concealed overhead closer was used and removed for prepping door for surface or floor closer use, 2 closers is not really recommended for ADA codes, as well as could contribute to premature wear on pivot points. Tom rubenoff (author) from United States on September 30, 2011: Very interesting advise Tom.I think inserting a solid timber block inside the door might be the way to go.alot more time consuming and work but the finished job will look far better than having bolts on the face of the door.I will have to set up a router with a fence and router out the top rail and glue a new piece of 100mm timber in.this will give a much better fixing for the closer.thankyou for your advise. The same principles of adjustments apply to floor closers as do other hydraulic closers: swing speed, closing speed and back check. I have an applications book for LCN/Glynn Johnson, but you might cut to the chase and phone LCN or Rixson tech support and ask them what their solution is. if this is one of them LCN 4040XP/4041 or the 4110 (handed rack and pinion type closers seen in schools and office buildings) a rebuilder may be who is best to talk to about this, as it would require getting into the closer and removing the spring to make them freeswinging. going forward, i may ask you very specific questions as i get differing info from different people in this industry.
I can manually slip the arm back into place but nothing is keeping it fastened. [g]. Your model will have its own page. Seriously, I went out and manually tightened them, but I'm a 68 year old woman without a lot of strength. If your closer has a nut or T handle that you must turn to activate the hold open feature, probably you will have to replace the arm. I would venture to say that the fact of the noise being loud is not a good sign, and points to the possibility that it has been adjusted to do something it was not designed to do. I have found plenty of explanations of they certain 'types' of closers now but still am uncertain what type would be ideal for this type of residential entryway. JavaScript seems to be disabled in your browser. Removing the bookmarks also deletes the notes. This is difficult, because the veneer is glued to the strip of wood on both sides of the door, and it may be difficult to remove the top strip without damaging the door. If it pushes to the right, it's a right hand door. The problem is that it will swing quite abruptly and one of our nurses got her finger pinched. Below it are shown a few examples of optional arms that are available to give surface mounted door closers more functionality. Right hand version shown (viewing the door from the opening side, hinges are on the right. Another is an adjustable soffet or door bracket that allows a door closer to be installed on a door with a round or curved top. Tom rubenoff (author) from United States on November 25, 2011: It sounds to me like you need a stop more than a closer. I have french doors from my den, outside swing to a second floor dec,. Sure, they both close the door, but spring hinges slam the door, whereas door closers are designed to close the door slowly and quietly. A parallel arm mount would be the only kind of mount that would apply a direct pull on the mounting screws. If the closers are mounted in a parallel arm, when the arm is extended until it stops it will, in effect, pull on the closer body. It is an old Yale Amarlite, if that matters. Alternatively you could use spring hinges, but these would simply slam the door. Tom rubenoff (author) from United States on June 02, 2012: Round top doors, ah yes, I remember them all too well. $67.00, Special Price White Choose your closer accordingly. One thing to avoid is installing the closer contrary to the installation instructions with the idea of adapting the closer to the non-standard situation. This arm is pictured above. To be sure, check the installation instructions. One is the corner bracket, that allows a standard arm mounting on the push side of a door. I kept thinking everyone was talking about the backcheck valve. What type of closer, preferably exterior would you suggest. Answer: First, identify it. If you have a friction hold open that is adjusted using a nut on the arm, you can loosen the nut - just a little, mind you - and render the hold open feature ineffective, or you can replace the arm with a non hold open arm. Best follow them, be it a parallel arm, standard or top jamb install. Due to COVID-19 Shipping Times May be Impacted. I have tried to dry lube the turn points but that has not helped. Sounds ingenious! (no idea why i have not been offered a job working at Norton or LCN, but about every locksmith (on the internet) that i have communicated with and even people at IRST (ingersoll rand security technologies) have told me about visiting the LCN plant to watch closers be made or even take a course in them. *Please note: Sugatsune charges a $5 handling fee on orders under $50. Or is the door not able to open as fully as you would like? Weight : 15 - 40 kg those are the bane of one's existence, and there are so many goobers out there that use a closer in a non-standard mount and expect it to work - (1) without slamming, (2) foil even the "latch-parkers" (say pool users that leave the gate "ajar" for their friends to come in behind them when I install standard door closers in a PA mount configuration on a metal security gate on a pool fence, there has to be for my purposes, a horizontal cross bar at the top of the frame (and at a 7 foot level) to mimic the geometry and mounting dimensions of a standard door frame. Surface mount that can be retrofitted onto current door installations.Easy to align to proper positioning, speeding up installation.Slim profile (body height only 16 mm) can handle doors up to 40 kg in Sugatsune LDD-S-P SPACER FOR LDD-STwo types available: 2 mm thickness and 3 mm thickness.Can be used for Max. Question: The door closer arms are not arrayed at the acute angles shown in your illustrations, or in the manual's illustrations. Non-track surface mounted door closers are available with different kinds of arms that perform different functions. You must have JavaScript enabled in your browser to utilize the functionality of this website. If the gate is tall enough, one could build a housing above the gate for the pulley system. It's a surface mounted closer, top jamb installation. Devices that are strictly door closers are very unlikely to make a whirring sound, but door openers have a much better chance at it because they have electro-mechanical components. what also could contribute to the learning, some locksmith courses don't cover the advanced skills and "hints and tips" of closers, but just how to perform "fresh installs" on doors and make the main adjustments. Question: Weve had two Dorma TS72 closers detach from the door, and the fitter blamed it on vandalism when we know that this is not the case. Answer: It could be some things. Or am I missing something? Since I need both these features, can I use both devices? Tom rubenoff (author) from United States on October 14, 2012: All of the closers I know of offer a through bolt package, also called sex nut fasteners. Closes gently, preventing Sugatsune UDD DISK DAMPER Fastener Type: 4 X 45, 3.5 X 15 mm Self tapping screw, Quiver Enterprises LLC 416 Carrie Lynn Avenue Algoma, WI 54201, Quiver Enterprises LLC This also eliminates the conflict, but it is a LOT more work. They will be happy to tell you. Sugatsune LDD-S-L/DBR: Surface Mount Door Damper (left) in Dark Brown finish. Of course installing a much heavier wood core door onto a door frame designed for a hollow core wood door may present its own challenges as well. Tom rubenoff (author) from United States on January 31, 2012: Some door closers are handed. Tom rubenoff (author) from United States on March 01, 2012: Thank you Jess. :). In the pictures of surface mounted door closers at the beginning of this article, the closers all have what is called a standard, double lever arm. To do it mechanically, one could create a chain and pulley system that would do the job, but the problem would be doing it in a way that does not create an obstruction to those using the gate. While they are designed to operate quietly, they usually have an electric motor and drive apparatus that certainly have the potential to make a whirring sound. Between the inside and outside plates, use copper tubing to create sleeves for the through-bolts so as to help stop them from crushing the door. You add a lot to my writing about door closers. Copyright 2022 SWS Hardware.
Sugatsune LADH LIFT-ASSIST DAMPER (Heavy Duty) The door is made of aluminum and I would say it's heavy, like most newer houses have, with a thickness of maybe 2". Alternatively, the catalog section on the LCN 4010T series says to consult the factory if the door is to be held open at 180 degrees. Your answers are always on target. If you have a lot of extra time and money, a concealed door closer will do the job. The arm stays attached to the door frame, and on one of the doors, a screw snapped in half where the closer had ripped away from the door. Firstly it overcomes any latching friction. I can't seem to find a longer connecting rod that goes with the 5400 series anywhere. Answer: I'd say no, not significantly. There are motorized gate operators that slide side-by-side gates in opposite directions, such as the Stanley SL540, however they do it by wiring two motors together, one on each side of the gate. Saw the comment on hollow wooden door but thought there might be some simple solutions ( or not so simple ) to metal doors as well. 6 mm thickness gap. One can either improvise or compromise. Low profile door closer for small, horizontally swinging doors. Equipped with dampening mechanism for soft close. Stay will hold the door in 90 open position. Push the door to close Accuride Hardware Kits-Brackets-Screws-Accessories, Heavy Duty Slides 170 Lbs to 1300 Lbs Load Rating, Medium Duty 140 Lbs to 169 Lbs Load Rating, Sugatsune LADH LIFT-ASSIST DAMPER (Heavy Duty), Sugatsune LDD Series DOOR DAMPER Surface Mount, Sugatsune LDD-SP-xx Spacer For LDD-S Dampers, Sugatsune EBD DAMPER FOR EB FOLDING BRACKET, Sugatsune LAD-DP SPACERS FOR THICKER PANEL, Sugatsune LAD-ST LIFT ASSIST DAMPER (W/ANGLE STOPPER), Sugatsune LDD-V LAPCON DOOR DAMPER (RECESSED TYPE)For Heavy Doors, Sugatsune YMC MINI-DOOR CLOSER WITH DAMPER. A hollow core wood door is not usually designed to support a door closer. mounted Concealed door closers can be used on single acting doors - doors that swing one way - but they are always used when a door is "double acting," that is, a door that swings both ways, in and out. On the pull side of the door, the plate should be flush with the top of the door so that it can be screwed to the thin strip of wood inside the top of the door. More info. Self & soft-close in final 15 degrees. If it were held open for several decades, it might have some effect. Unfortunately, all 4 of the screws that hold its parallel bracket in place are constantly loose. Is it a situation where this door is the exterior storm door and there is another, perhaps wooden door behind it? Is there any add-on (or OEM closer) available that allows mounting where my current cheap tubular hydraulic closer is, which is about 18 inches off the threshold? Surface mount version. about the oil/fluid, if I was approached with this situation, I would say to leave the fluid in the closer and adjust the valves so they are open all the way (not removed from closer body) this way it will not hinder the normal freeswinging feel but will slow it down if someone tries to slam it (in anger or wind take the door), as for the internal parts, this is best left to the experts/professionals to deal with, there is a really strong spring inside them that if taken out wrong or the wrong procedure used, can result in serious personal injury/damage to closer, Tom, a closer that has no fluid or piston/spring is often called a "dummy closer" these are common in use where a concealed overhead closer was used and removed for prepping door for surface or floor closer use, 2 closers is not really recommended for ADA codes, as well as could contribute to premature wear on pivot points. Tom rubenoff (author) from United States on September 30, 2011: Very interesting advise Tom.I think inserting a solid timber block inside the door might be the way to go.alot more time consuming and work but the finished job will look far better than having bolts on the face of the door.I will have to set up a router with a fence and router out the top rail and glue a new piece of 100mm timber in.this will give a much better fixing for the closer.thankyou for your advise. The same principles of adjustments apply to floor closers as do other hydraulic closers: swing speed, closing speed and back check. I have an applications book for LCN/Glynn Johnson, but you might cut to the chase and phone LCN or Rixson tech support and ask them what their solution is. if this is one of them LCN 4040XP/4041 or the 4110 (handed rack and pinion type closers seen in schools and office buildings) a rebuilder may be who is best to talk to about this, as it would require getting into the closer and removing the spring to make them freeswinging. going forward, i may ask you very specific questions as i get differing info from different people in this industry.
