the problem could be the valve but mire likely a boiler over pressure condition or a water feeder problem.Diagnose the cause before replacing parts. without backing up to the valve. At its extreme, a leaky relief valve can clog, leading to a BLEVE EXPLOSION. as your photos shows improper and dangerous modifications: "Red tagging" is most-often done by a service technician. conditioner may discharge to a floor served by a floor drain so as OTHER PEOPLE's MONEY, On 2021-01-18 by (mod) Slow drips easily leave scale that can clog a 1/8" diameter spiral tube with crimped end pretty quickly. Really? Where could I have found such care and expertise in an inspector the first time? Each pressure relief valve shall be an approved automatic type with drain, and each such relief valve shall be set at a pressure of not more than 150 psi (1034 kPa). I inferred from the product design in your photo that an engineer or someone had added a temperature sensor intended to detect spillage as heat and thus to act as a different method of shutting off an unsafe hot water heating appliance. I much appreciate the discussion and polite well-intended argument. 11. Discharge line termination point should be visible to observe any discharge. Every relief valve which is designed to discharge water or steam shall be connected to a discharge pipe.
I think your photo of the water heater shows rust at its bottom; an old water heater and especially a rusty one that has suffered leaks over its life is at greater risk of bursting - a BLEVE explosion risk. Safest would be to turn the heater OFF entirely until the plumbing is done correctly. In sum, a relief valve discharge tube that is not pointing downwards may become unsafe. Just how fast that unsafe condition occurs depends on variables including. The discharge pipe may not be threaded. I am not aware of any temperature/pressure valve that itself is made of plastic. - B.N. Watch out: a TPR valve not properly located risks failing to respond adequately to over-temperature or over-pressure in the water heater, risking a BLEVE explosion. No one called out the use of that piping material itself as a hazard, but there can be hazards nonetheless depending on how that tube is routed - such as to a hidden location without a Tundish or routed "up" from the TP valve itself.
if it blocks view of or draining of a relief valve. - can I just dump the T&P valve into a crawl space under a slab? Example: here is an excerpt from Wisconsin's Plumbing Code ( WI Comm 82.40 (5) (d) (1) and (2) 1-5 (a-f)). Possibly. & How?
Discharge in a manner that does not cause personal injury or structural damage. This interesting TPR test lever addition was explained by the building owner. to adversely affect floats by means of a fixed air gap installed in Pigtail uprouted TPR for below grade basements (PUTPRfbGB)? Our Comment Box is provided by Countable Web Productions countable.ca, Click to Show or Hide Citations & References, COMMONLY USED RESIDENTIAL BUILDING CODES, IRC 2009, WISCONSIN PLUMBING CODE, Chapter SPS 382, DESIGN, CONSTRUCTION, INSTALLATION, SUPERVISION, MAINTENANCE AND INSPECTION OF PLUMBING, CALIFORNIA 608.3 EXPANSION TANKS, AND COMBINATION TEMPERATURE AND PRESSURE-RELIEF VALVES, CALIFORNIA 761. Take a look at where the TPR valve is connected to your water heater; if it's on a side (near the top of course) then you need working space for the valve. Your earlier photos were incomplete in that detail . That means, call a plumber and schedule the work for as soon as possible and practical, but not sounding so scared that the plumber gouges the customer with extra fees. Not be directly connected to the drainage system. steam, and the temperature control valve fails to function, the over pressure may cause the Is it okay/safe to install the TPR valve on the hot water outlet line coming off the top of the water heater? 5. (d) Safety devices: Water heaters shall be equipped with safety devices as specified in this paragraph. The overflow line is higher than the Temperature and Pressure Relief (T & P) valve. Clog with scale sure, but only if there's water in the pipe, which there should not be. Watts Water Technologies, No. Thanks Either the end of the drain needs to be visible or if your local codes permit, you can install a Tundish - search InspectApedia for TUNDISH to read about use of that device. Kit for Tank Type Heaters. Illustrated here in a photo and sketch you can see that the relief valve drain line can, where local codes approve, be routed "up" to carry discharge across a ceiling and then down to an approved drain discharge location provided that a special draining device, shown as a spiral-wound small-diameter copper tube is attached to drain the residue water in the vertical section of the drain line after a discharge. Continue readingat RELIEF VALVE LEAKS or select a topic from the closely-related articles below, or see the complete ARTICLE INDEX. At the time, we immediately requested the heating company to replace the plastic and paid a substantial amount of money to do this. (3) The discharge pipe cannot be readily plugged or otherwise obstructed. Discharge in such a manner that does not cause personal injury or structural damage. heater to burst or explode.). Georg Fischer Piping Systems, "CPVC Pipe", retrieved 12/23/12, GF Piping, Pennsylvania - white plastic discharge tube not to code? to $150 depending on where the building is located. It's way better than the method of putting a manual drain valve there, which of course will be left in the wrong position. It's not a control nor thermocouple, it's simply a small diameter drain. 14. Smith Water Products Company - hotwater.com/lit/training/4800r9.pdf 800-433-2545 - 01/07/2009. not to create a health or safety hazard. 4778* All about Deliming Coil-Type/Tube-Type Commercial Water Heaters and Hydronic Boilers *Normally supplied when ordering Part No. Maybe the water heater needs to be replaced: if it's leaking or badly-corroded, for example. Would it be acceptable to allow the T&P valve to simply dump into the crushed rock in the crawl space? Back in 2016, Justin Phillips at AICHE, something similar: " The most effective and efficient mitigation or elimination of risk is achieved at the earliest juncture and at the most fundamental level, The most effective and efficient mitigation or elimination of risk is achieved at the earliest juncture and at the most fundamental level, (Justin 2016). Paul.This condition is unsafe. Not have a threaded connection at the end of such piping. While TPR valves may come with an instruction to test the valve annually, in five decades of building inspections of thousands of buildings we have not found more than a handful of building owners who ever test a relief valve nor even know of that requirement. This except [adapted for clarity] from the Uniform Plumbing Code is excerpted from the U.S. state of Utah's adoption of the code: The [TPR valve] discharge piping serving a pressure-relief valve, temperature-relief valve or combination valve shall: 1. Does TP valve on residential water heater use a p-trap - Xavier, No Xavier, the discharge from a TP valve should not be trapped it's discharge end should be visible. The pigtail drain may appear to work perfectly to drain the residing water in the vertical section of the discharge line for the relief valve at initial installation and testing, experience suggests to us that debris, especially mineral scale, is epidemic at water heater relief valves, especially if the leak at the valve is a slow drip. Practically - adding another messy detail, if your water heater sits in a drip or spill tray then the bottom of the discharge pipe will have to jog out and over and down to get past the outer edge of the drip tray, so the drip tray itself is going to space the heater and most of the discharge pipe a bit more-distant from the wall. Water heater video #2, Mythbusters exploding water heater demonstration, a 50 gallon water tank explosion, Our recommended books about building & mechanical systems design, inspection, problem diagnosis, and repair, and about indoor environment and IAQ testing, diagnosis, and cleanup are at the. (I shut of the water supply off to the tank so it isn't spilling onto the floor.) On 2020-07-15 by Doug H 5. (The concern is if the water overheats and turns to Be constructed of those materials indicated in Section P2906.5 or materials tested, rated and approved for such use in accordance with ASME A112.4.1.
Even though the discharge of water into an area may not, in your opinion, cause damage to the building, the point of discharge must be visible so that someone can spot trouble (leaks) before a catastrophe occurs. Kevin the relief valve would itself tap into a metal fitting on the boiler or on older installations on metal heating piping. (Hellemans 2009). (3) The discharge pipe cannot be readily plugged or otherwise obstructed. Such expansion tank or other approved device shall be installed on the building side of the check valve, backflow preventer, or other device and shall be sized and installed in accordance with the manufacturer's installation instructions. With the TPR going outside a drip drip could go unnoticed a very long time. or air conditioner may discharge into the riser of a floor drain Discharge pipe shall discharge independently by gravity through an air gap into the drainage system or outside of the building with the end of the pipe not exceeding 2 feet (610 mm) and not less than 6 inches (152 mm) above the ground and pointing downwards. I came across a boiler where the fitting off the T&P and the extension to the floor is made of PVC. Be constructed of those materials listed in Section 605.4 or materials tested, rated and approved for such use in accordance with ASME A112.4.1. No shutoff valve shall be installed between the relief valve and the system. Great question, RJ. - R.N. The water heater is sitting on a reinforced 4" concrete slab. I have a relief valve right on top of my steam boiler, it doesn't have a discharge outlet but it has openings right on top of it where i see some, if not too much steam coming out, it should be replaced or it is normal? 5. may discharge through the cover of a clear water sump so as not
Andover MA, USA, 978-688-1811, Website: www.watts.com, Amtrol, "Therm-X-Trol Thermal Expansion Absorbers", Amtrol Inc., 1400 Division Road, West Warwick, RI 02893, Tel: 401.884.6300 Website: www.amtrol.com, online product literature re4trieved 3/26/2014, original source: http://www.amtrol.com/thermxtrol.html. The discharge piping serving a pressure relief valve, temperature relief valve or combination thereof shall: 9. Be installed so as to flow by gravity.
13 March 2015 Stan Stan the Inspector Man said: Can 3/4-inch flexible copper tubing sections (with FIP ends) be legally used in any part of a water heater's T&P discharge line? A visible location, or if to a not-visible location, search Inspectapedia for TUNDISH and use one of those at the heater. (Probably not permitted because it is above floor height?) Each such combination temperature and pressure-relief valve shall be provided with a drain in accordance with Section 608.5. Really? TPR valves drip far more often than they flow at volume. Some of the discharge tube is wrapped in foil and isn't visible so there may be other hazards. The risk includes destructive, even fatal BLEVE EXPLOSIONS.Please read RELIEF VALVE LEAKS for details and let me know if any questions remain. No, Gina that is NOT a safe nor an approved installation. by no means do I want to sound glib; and I know it's FAR too easy to sit in some distant spot and tell someone else to just spend money.
You can pipe a tp valve down and to a floor drain provided the end of the extension remains visible. In my opinion it's unreliable as shown and could be unsafe and as I opine with comments in the articles I cite: RELIEF VALVE DISCHARGE TUBE - you are on this page.
On 2020-11-23 11. "A substantial amount of money" worries me. U.S. Each such approved combination temperature and pressure-relief valve shall be installed on the water-heating device in an approved location based on its listing requirements and the manufacturer's installation instructions. All pressurized non-storage type water heaters shall be provided with a pressure relief valve installed at the hot water outlet with no shut off valve between the heater and the relief valve. U.S. This looks to me like a "good idea" that has not yet seen long-term testing in real-world conditions. Is there any requirement that the fitting and pipe extension is required to be made from copper? I wish the water heater were red-tagged, but you know, I'm only a ten ant. Details of our discussion with Mr. Nesbitt are given below. On 2019-11-11 by (mod) - is it ok for the TP valve to drip or leak? heater valve water relief pressure tpr temperature plumbing tp valves schematic faqs heaters test were requirements installation prv american leaks 1. I now understand from our correspondence that this is not a temperature sensor, it's a flow-resistive drain. Maybe to get it out of the way of a basketball or something.
Not be smaller than the diameter of the outlet of the valve served and shall discharge full size to the air gap. His son and friends liked to play steam boat.
In a photo above on this page you can see a flexible 3/4" copper tube used in the routing of the discharge of a TP valve from the top of a water heater. (Search InspectApedia.com for that term)Turn off the boiler to avoid damaging it. Both of these installations are improper and unsafe. The temperature steam rating of a combination temperature and pressure relief valve or valves shall equal or exceed the energy input rating in BTU per hour of the water heater. What the home inspector said was perfectly correct and represents a safety hazard. The TPR valve needs to be installed in a tapping on the heater itself, near the top or on the top, as provided by the manufacturer; if you give the brand and model of water heater we may be able to find the installation manual that will show those exact details. All pressurized storage-type water heaters and unfired hot water storage tanks shall be equipped with one or more combination temperature and pressure relief valves. valve to corrode and malfunction. Who, besides a willing contractor/plumber (which tenants don't hire in this state) can (red tag)? Later explanation from Mr. Nesbitt clarified that the copper pigtail is a small diameter "drain" intended to remove water from the vertical portion of the relief valve up-piped drain line after the valve has discharged water during an over-pressure or over-temperature or test condition. (7) (b). The plastic Reliance -brand T&P discharge pipe I show here is sold by plumbing suppliers locally and on-line for about $12. The Temperature & Pressure Relief Valve or TPR Valve on any heated appliance that contains water, such as a heating boiler, hot water tank, water heater, water cylinder, must have a drain line or discharge tube properly installed, routed, and made of proper materials. My new tankless water heater is in a place in my basement (finished) where there is no floor drain. Special thanks to reader Bryce Nesbitt for bringing to our attention the spiral tubing described as a copper pigtail that we'd describe as a pigtail drain for up-routed pressure relief valve discharge drain lines. It is common to see plastic discharge tubes on some PT valves and that's an accepted practice provided the tubing is properly rated for the temperatures involved. were told that the white plastic was not to code and should be replaced with copper. 5 (e) The discharge pipe shall be installed to drain by gravity flow to a floor served by a floor drain or to a receptor in accordance with s. Comm 82.33 (8). We also provide an ARTICLE INDEX for this topic, or you can try the page top or bottom SEARCH BOX as a quick way to find information you need. temperature and pressure relief valve, water treatment device, This is an unsafe condition as the operation of the temperature or pressure relief valve may be interfered with by the insulation and also because the valve cannot be inspected for evidence of leaks or failure. Similarly, discharging a relief valve leakage or drip to a location where the leak or drip cannot be observed is a dangerous practice because the leak can go unnoticed, causing failure to recognize an unsafe condition. 2. The photo is a bit difficult to read but if you look closely where the two flexible copper lines enter the wall behind the water heater, you'll see that the smaller leftmost flexible tube, connected back to the water heater TP valve, enters the wall at a height above the valve outlet opening. when installed in accordance with sub. You don't even know you don't know it. see our complete collection of plumbing codes and PDF downloads at. [5] A.O. Pipe the T&P and condensate lines to a sump with a float to pump outside. You don't know what you don't know. [ see photo above ], On 2020-11-23 - by (mod) - How close Can a T and P discharge Pipe be to dry wall. 10. When I spoke to the lead inspector in Berkeley CA they said they copied from San Jose CA. This article describes the requirements for a discharge tube or drain line on temperature & pressure relief valves used on any appliance that heats water. I can't say that I understand it nor what that pigtail is doing as shown in the illustration (though I make some guesses) - what is it? Terminate not more than 6 inches (152 mm) and not less than two times the discharge pipe diameter above the floor or waste receptor flood level rim. Allied Valve raises another objection that may pertain to your up-piped relief valve discharge piping: possible loading on the valve body itself if the piping does not support its own weight. Thanks for the information. 6. As you can see from the example I give below, a typical residential boiler relief valve costs less than $100. A sump pit and pump exist in the area. Temperature and pressure relief valves shall be installed so that the sensing element of the valve extends into the heater tank and monitors the temperature in the top 6 inches of the heater or tank. It's worth noting to your landlord both orally and in writing immediately that, More information is at RELIEF VALVE, WATER HEATER, Thank you. We have no relationship with advertisers, products, or services discussed at this website. from the TPR. The other solution to this same problem would be TPR's rated for two way immersion. 2. Smith's Form No. (happened already). The reasoning is simple: discharging the TPR tube end in a more-remote location increases the risk that a leak goes un-attended and the system becomes unsafe. No part of such discharge pipe shall be trapped or subject to freezing. concerning the heating element, it was suggested that it might be impossible to get a replacement part for that as well. On the picture it shows the that the discharge line is above the TPR valve, and that this is a problem (see description on attachment). and pressure relief valve, water treatment device, cross connection control device or assembly, humidifier, sterilizer, or a furnace 4. A water system provided with a check valve, backflow preventer, or other normally closed device that prevents dissipation of building pressure back into the water main, independent of the type of water heater used, shall be provided with an approved, listed, and adequately sized expansion tank or other approved device having a similar function to control thermal expansion. Is there a legal option of looping the relief valve discharge tube up through the band board of my house so it can drain to the outside?
Thanks again for the head's up on the up-pigtailed TPR. Below the reducer from 3/4" to 1/2" was installed at the TPR valve opening. 2. The photos above illustrates this unsafe installation practice: a 1/2" copper tube has been installed through a reducing fitting into the mouth or piping of a 3/4" diameter TPR valve. I looked through the code book (IRC) and can't find any where that states it must be mechanically attached. All of them are improper. Zurn Engineered Water Solutions, retrieved 12/23/12, original source: http://www.zurn.com/Pages/ProductsList.aspx?NodeKey=398872, [1] "Residential Electric Water Heater Installation Instructions and Use & Care Guide", American Water Heater Co., October 2001, American Water Heater Co., Johnson City, TN, [manufacturer of residential & commercial water heaters, also manufacturer of Polaris/Commercial water heaters], Tel: 800-999-9515, web search 1/12/2012, original source: americanwaterheater.com/support/manuals/res-elect.pdf [copy on file] [Technical review requested 1/25/2011], [2] ANSI Z21.22 - 1986, provides requirements for pressure/temperature relief valves The discharge drain extension is typically taken to just a few inches above the floor or in some jurisdictions it may be directed outdoors - a solution that I think is risky because IF the valve should be leaking, dripping, etc., one wants to notice that and fix it to keep the system safe.The inspector's report makes a valid point: we should never route the discharge tube "up" from the actual outlet opening of the TP valve. Should I have the plumber attach it or let it ride? Finally: I'd like to see a photo of that TPR valve and another of its data tag. So, which should it be? These include hydronic heating boilers (hot water boilers), steam boilers, and all types of water heaters, both those that use a water storage tank or cylinder and those that heat water on demand such as tankless water heaters. Should I be concerned? The local waste piping serving a water heater temperature Smith's Form No. Some details including the design, the pigtail connection (presumably to a shutoff control) and research supporting this up-draining valve would be helpful. 6. Recently we replaced our 14 year old Ultra 310 Boiler with a new Evergreen 399 Boiler. 7. But the discharge tube on many new installations is plastic; it's a pipe that rarely sees service and whose job is to divert hot water to the floor rather than onto a bystander. You'd probably find these same instructions in the installation manual for the water heater.The COST for this repair should be no more than a simple plumbing service call and perhaps a few piping connections.
I think your photo of the water heater shows rust at its bottom; an old water heater and especially a rusty one that has suffered leaks over its life is at greater risk of bursting - a BLEVE explosion risk. Safest would be to turn the heater OFF entirely until the plumbing is done correctly. In sum, a relief valve discharge tube that is not pointing downwards may become unsafe. Just how fast that unsafe condition occurs depends on variables including. The discharge pipe may not be threaded. I am not aware of any temperature/pressure valve that itself is made of plastic. - B.N. Watch out: a TPR valve not properly located risks failing to respond adequately to over-temperature or over-pressure in the water heater, risking a BLEVE explosion. No one called out the use of that piping material itself as a hazard, but there can be hazards nonetheless depending on how that tube is routed - such as to a hidden location without a Tundish or routed "up" from the TP valve itself.
if it blocks view of or draining of a relief valve. - can I just dump the T&P valve into a crawl space under a slab? Example: here is an excerpt from Wisconsin's Plumbing Code ( WI Comm 82.40 (5) (d) (1) and (2) 1-5 (a-f)). Possibly. & How?
Discharge in a manner that does not cause personal injury or structural damage. This interesting TPR test lever addition was explained by the building owner. to adversely affect floats by means of a fixed air gap installed in Pigtail uprouted TPR for below grade basements (PUTPRfbGB)? Our Comment Box is provided by Countable Web Productions countable.ca, Click to Show or Hide Citations & References, COMMONLY USED RESIDENTIAL BUILDING CODES, IRC 2009, WISCONSIN PLUMBING CODE, Chapter SPS 382, DESIGN, CONSTRUCTION, INSTALLATION, SUPERVISION, MAINTENANCE AND INSPECTION OF PLUMBING, CALIFORNIA 608.3 EXPANSION TANKS, AND COMBINATION TEMPERATURE AND PRESSURE-RELIEF VALVES, CALIFORNIA 761. Take a look at where the TPR valve is connected to your water heater; if it's on a side (near the top of course) then you need working space for the valve. Your earlier photos were incomplete in that detail . That means, call a plumber and schedule the work for as soon as possible and practical, but not sounding so scared that the plumber gouges the customer with extra fees. Not be directly connected to the drainage system. steam, and the temperature control valve fails to function, the over pressure may cause the Is it okay/safe to install the TPR valve on the hot water outlet line coming off the top of the water heater? 5. (d) Safety devices: Water heaters shall be equipped with safety devices as specified in this paragraph. The overflow line is higher than the Temperature and Pressure Relief (T & P) valve. Clog with scale sure, but only if there's water in the pipe, which there should not be. Watts Water Technologies, No. Thanks Either the end of the drain needs to be visible or if your local codes permit, you can install a Tundish - search InspectApedia for TUNDISH to read about use of that device. Kit for Tank Type Heaters. Illustrated here in a photo and sketch you can see that the relief valve drain line can, where local codes approve, be routed "up" to carry discharge across a ceiling and then down to an approved drain discharge location provided that a special draining device, shown as a spiral-wound small-diameter copper tube is attached to drain the residue water in the vertical section of the drain line after a discharge. Continue readingat RELIEF VALVE LEAKS or select a topic from the closely-related articles below, or see the complete ARTICLE INDEX. At the time, we immediately requested the heating company to replace the plastic and paid a substantial amount of money to do this. (3) The discharge pipe cannot be readily plugged or otherwise obstructed. Discharge in such a manner that does not cause personal injury or structural damage. heater to burst or explode.). Georg Fischer Piping Systems, "CPVC Pipe", retrieved 12/23/12, GF Piping, Pennsylvania - white plastic discharge tube not to code? to $150 depending on where the building is located. It's way better than the method of putting a manual drain valve there, which of course will be left in the wrong position. It's not a control nor thermocouple, it's simply a small diameter drain. 14. Smith Water Products Company - hotwater.com/lit/training/4800r9.pdf 800-433-2545 - 01/07/2009. not to create a health or safety hazard. 4778* All about Deliming Coil-Type/Tube-Type Commercial Water Heaters and Hydronic Boilers *Normally supplied when ordering Part No. Maybe the water heater needs to be replaced: if it's leaking or badly-corroded, for example. Would it be acceptable to allow the T&P valve to simply dump into the crushed rock in the crawl space? Back in 2016, Justin Phillips at AICHE, something similar: " The most effective and efficient mitigation or elimination of risk is achieved at the earliest juncture and at the most fundamental level, The most effective and efficient mitigation or elimination of risk is achieved at the earliest juncture and at the most fundamental level, (Justin 2016). Paul.This condition is unsafe. Not have a threaded connection at the end of such piping. While TPR valves may come with an instruction to test the valve annually, in five decades of building inspections of thousands of buildings we have not found more than a handful of building owners who ever test a relief valve nor even know of that requirement. This except [adapted for clarity] from the Uniform Plumbing Code is excerpted from the U.S. state of Utah's adoption of the code: The [TPR valve] discharge piping serving a pressure-relief valve, temperature-relief valve or combination valve shall: 1. Does TP valve on residential water heater use a p-trap - Xavier, No Xavier, the discharge from a TP valve should not be trapped it's discharge end should be visible. The pigtail drain may appear to work perfectly to drain the residing water in the vertical section of the discharge line for the relief valve at initial installation and testing, experience suggests to us that debris, especially mineral scale, is epidemic at water heater relief valves, especially if the leak at the valve is a slow drip. Practically - adding another messy detail, if your water heater sits in a drip or spill tray then the bottom of the discharge pipe will have to jog out and over and down to get past the outer edge of the drip tray, so the drip tray itself is going to space the heater and most of the discharge pipe a bit more-distant from the wall. Water heater video #2, Mythbusters exploding water heater demonstration, a 50 gallon water tank explosion, Our recommended books about building & mechanical systems design, inspection, problem diagnosis, and repair, and about indoor environment and IAQ testing, diagnosis, and cleanup are at the. (I shut of the water supply off to the tank so it isn't spilling onto the floor.) On 2020-07-15 by Doug H 5. (The concern is if the water overheats and turns to Be constructed of those materials indicated in Section P2906.5 or materials tested, rated and approved for such use in accordance with ASME A112.4.1.
Even though the discharge of water into an area may not, in your opinion, cause damage to the building, the point of discharge must be visible so that someone can spot trouble (leaks) before a catastrophe occurs. Kevin the relief valve would itself tap into a metal fitting on the boiler or on older installations on metal heating piping. (Hellemans 2009). (3) The discharge pipe cannot be readily plugged or otherwise obstructed. Such expansion tank or other approved device shall be installed on the building side of the check valve, backflow preventer, or other device and shall be sized and installed in accordance with the manufacturer's installation instructions. With the TPR going outside a drip drip could go unnoticed a very long time. or air conditioner may discharge into the riser of a floor drain Discharge pipe shall discharge independently by gravity through an air gap into the drainage system or outside of the building with the end of the pipe not exceeding 2 feet (610 mm) and not less than 6 inches (152 mm) above the ground and pointing downwards. I came across a boiler where the fitting off the T&P and the extension to the floor is made of PVC. Be constructed of those materials listed in Section 605.4 or materials tested, rated and approved for such use in accordance with ASME A112.4.1. No shutoff valve shall be installed between the relief valve and the system. Great question, RJ. - R.N. The water heater is sitting on a reinforced 4" concrete slab. I have a relief valve right on top of my steam boiler, it doesn't have a discharge outlet but it has openings right on top of it where i see some, if not too much steam coming out, it should be replaced or it is normal? 5. may discharge through the cover of a clear water sump so as not
Andover MA, USA, 978-688-1811, Website: www.watts.com, Amtrol, "Therm-X-Trol Thermal Expansion Absorbers", Amtrol Inc., 1400 Division Road, West Warwick, RI 02893, Tel: 401.884.6300 Website: www.amtrol.com, online product literature re4trieved 3/26/2014, original source: http://www.amtrol.com/thermxtrol.html. The discharge piping serving a pressure relief valve, temperature relief valve or combination thereof shall: 9. Be installed so as to flow by gravity. 13 March 2015 Stan Stan the Inspector Man said: Can 3/4-inch flexible copper tubing sections (with FIP ends) be legally used in any part of a water heater's T&P discharge line? A visible location, or if to a not-visible location, search Inspectapedia for TUNDISH and use one of those at the heater. (Probably not permitted because it is above floor height?) Each such combination temperature and pressure-relief valve shall be provided with a drain in accordance with Section 608.5. Really? TPR valves drip far more often than they flow at volume. Some of the discharge tube is wrapped in foil and isn't visible so there may be other hazards. The risk includes destructive, even fatal BLEVE EXPLOSIONS.Please read RELIEF VALVE LEAKS for details and let me know if any questions remain. No, Gina that is NOT a safe nor an approved installation. by no means do I want to sound glib; and I know it's FAR too easy to sit in some distant spot and tell someone else to just spend money.
You can pipe a tp valve down and to a floor drain provided the end of the extension remains visible. In my opinion it's unreliable as shown and could be unsafe and as I opine with comments in the articles I cite: RELIEF VALVE DISCHARGE TUBE - you are on this page.
On 2020-11-23 11. "A substantial amount of money" worries me. U.S. Each such approved combination temperature and pressure-relief valve shall be installed on the water-heating device in an approved location based on its listing requirements and the manufacturer's installation instructions. All pressurized non-storage type water heaters shall be provided with a pressure relief valve installed at the hot water outlet with no shut off valve between the heater and the relief valve. U.S. This looks to me like a "good idea" that has not yet seen long-term testing in real-world conditions. Is there any requirement that the fitting and pipe extension is required to be made from copper? I wish the water heater were red-tagged, but you know, I'm only a ten ant. Details of our discussion with Mr. Nesbitt are given below. On 2019-11-11 by (mod) - is it ok for the TP valve to drip or leak? heater valve water relief pressure tpr temperature plumbing tp valves schematic faqs heaters test were requirements installation prv american leaks 1. I now understand from our correspondence that this is not a temperature sensor, it's a flow-resistive drain. Maybe to get it out of the way of a basketball or something.
Not be smaller than the diameter of the outlet of the valve served and shall discharge full size to the air gap. His son and friends liked to play steam boat.
In a photo above on this page you can see a flexible 3/4" copper tube used in the routing of the discharge of a TP valve from the top of a water heater. (Search InspectApedia.com for that term)Turn off the boiler to avoid damaging it. Both of these installations are improper and unsafe. The temperature steam rating of a combination temperature and pressure relief valve or valves shall equal or exceed the energy input rating in BTU per hour of the water heater. What the home inspector said was perfectly correct and represents a safety hazard. The TPR valve needs to be installed in a tapping on the heater itself, near the top or on the top, as provided by the manufacturer; if you give the brand and model of water heater we may be able to find the installation manual that will show those exact details. All pressurized storage-type water heaters and unfired hot water storage tanks shall be equipped with one or more combination temperature and pressure relief valves. valve to corrode and malfunction. Who, besides a willing contractor/plumber (which tenants don't hire in this state) can (red tag)? Later explanation from Mr. Nesbitt clarified that the copper pigtail is a small diameter "drain" intended to remove water from the vertical portion of the relief valve up-piped drain line after the valve has discharged water during an over-pressure or over-temperature or test condition. (7) (b). The plastic Reliance -brand T&P discharge pipe I show here is sold by plumbing suppliers locally and on-line for about $12. The Temperature & Pressure Relief Valve or TPR Valve on any heated appliance that contains water, such as a heating boiler, hot water tank, water heater, water cylinder, must have a drain line or discharge tube properly installed, routed, and made of proper materials. My new tankless water heater is in a place in my basement (finished) where there is no floor drain. Special thanks to reader Bryce Nesbitt for bringing to our attention the spiral tubing described as a copper pigtail that we'd describe as a pigtail drain for up-routed pressure relief valve discharge drain lines. It is common to see plastic discharge tubes on some PT valves and that's an accepted practice provided the tubing is properly rated for the temperatures involved. were told that the white plastic was not to code and should be replaced with copper. 5 (e) The discharge pipe shall be installed to drain by gravity flow to a floor served by a floor drain or to a receptor in accordance with s. Comm 82.33 (8). We also provide an ARTICLE INDEX for this topic, or you can try the page top or bottom SEARCH BOX as a quick way to find information you need. temperature and pressure relief valve, water treatment device, This is an unsafe condition as the operation of the temperature or pressure relief valve may be interfered with by the insulation and also because the valve cannot be inspected for evidence of leaks or failure. Similarly, discharging a relief valve leakage or drip to a location where the leak or drip cannot be observed is a dangerous practice because the leak can go unnoticed, causing failure to recognize an unsafe condition. 2. The photo is a bit difficult to read but if you look closely where the two flexible copper lines enter the wall behind the water heater, you'll see that the smaller leftmost flexible tube, connected back to the water heater TP valve, enters the wall at a height above the valve outlet opening. when installed in accordance with sub. You don't even know you don't know it. see our complete collection of plumbing codes and PDF downloads at. [5] A.O. Pipe the T&P and condensate lines to a sump with a float to pump outside. You don't know what you don't know. [ see photo above ], On 2020-11-23 - by (mod) - How close Can a T and P discharge Pipe be to dry wall. 10. When I spoke to the lead inspector in Berkeley CA they said they copied from San Jose CA. This article describes the requirements for a discharge tube or drain line on temperature & pressure relief valves used on any appliance that heats water. I can't say that I understand it nor what that pigtail is doing as shown in the illustration (though I make some guesses) - what is it? Terminate not more than 6 inches (152 mm) and not less than two times the discharge pipe diameter above the floor or waste receptor flood level rim. Allied Valve raises another objection that may pertain to your up-piped relief valve discharge piping: possible loading on the valve body itself if the piping does not support its own weight. Thanks for the information. 6. As you can see from the example I give below, a typical residential boiler relief valve costs less than $100. A sump pit and pump exist in the area. Temperature and pressure relief valves shall be installed so that the sensing element of the valve extends into the heater tank and monitors the temperature in the top 6 inches of the heater or tank. It's worth noting to your landlord both orally and in writing immediately that, More information is at RELIEF VALVE, WATER HEATER, Thank you. We have no relationship with advertisers, products, or services discussed at this website. from the TPR. The other solution to this same problem would be TPR's rated for two way immersion. 2. Smith's Form No. (happened already). The reasoning is simple: discharging the TPR tube end in a more-remote location increases the risk that a leak goes un-attended and the system becomes unsafe. No part of such discharge pipe shall be trapped or subject to freezing. concerning the heating element, it was suggested that it might be impossible to get a replacement part for that as well. On the picture it shows the that the discharge line is above the TPR valve, and that this is a problem (see description on attachment). and pressure relief valve, water treatment device, cross connection control device or assembly, humidifier, sterilizer, or a furnace 4. A water system provided with a check valve, backflow preventer, or other normally closed device that prevents dissipation of building pressure back into the water main, independent of the type of water heater used, shall be provided with an approved, listed, and adequately sized expansion tank or other approved device having a similar function to control thermal expansion. Is there a legal option of looping the relief valve discharge tube up through the band board of my house so it can drain to the outside?
Thanks again for the head's up on the up-pigtailed TPR. Below the reducer from 3/4" to 1/2" was installed at the TPR valve opening. 2. The photos above illustrates this unsafe installation practice: a 1/2" copper tube has been installed through a reducing fitting into the mouth or piping of a 3/4" diameter TPR valve. I looked through the code book (IRC) and can't find any where that states it must be mechanically attached. All of them are improper. Zurn Engineered Water Solutions, retrieved 12/23/12, original source: http://www.zurn.com/Pages/ProductsList.aspx?NodeKey=398872, [1] "Residential Electric Water Heater Installation Instructions and Use & Care Guide", American Water Heater Co., October 2001, American Water Heater Co., Johnson City, TN, [manufacturer of residential & commercial water heaters, also manufacturer of Polaris/Commercial water heaters], Tel: 800-999-9515, web search 1/12/2012, original source: americanwaterheater.com/support/manuals/res-elect.pdf [copy on file] [Technical review requested 1/25/2011], [2] ANSI Z21.22 - 1986, provides requirements for pressure/temperature relief valves The discharge drain extension is typically taken to just a few inches above the floor or in some jurisdictions it may be directed outdoors - a solution that I think is risky because IF the valve should be leaking, dripping, etc., one wants to notice that and fix it to keep the system safe.The inspector's report makes a valid point: we should never route the discharge tube "up" from the actual outlet opening of the TP valve. Should I have the plumber attach it or let it ride? Finally: I'd like to see a photo of that TPR valve and another of its data tag. So, which should it be? These include hydronic heating boilers (hot water boilers), steam boilers, and all types of water heaters, both those that use a water storage tank or cylinder and those that heat water on demand such as tankless water heaters. Should I be concerned? The local waste piping serving a water heater temperature Smith's Form No. Some details including the design, the pigtail connection (presumably to a shutoff control) and research supporting this up-draining valve would be helpful. 6. Recently we replaced our 14 year old Ultra 310 Boiler with a new Evergreen 399 Boiler. 7. But the discharge tube on many new installations is plastic; it's a pipe that rarely sees service and whose job is to divert hot water to the floor rather than onto a bystander. You'd probably find these same instructions in the installation manual for the water heater.The COST for this repair should be no more than a simple plumbing service call and perhaps a few piping connections.